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International renowned Islamic scholar, author and leadership consultant Sheikh Mirza Yawar Beg is visiting South Africa, bringing more than 35 years of experience in developing leaders and strengthening Muslim communities around the world. Well, he joins us now to discuss leadership and the challenges facing the Ummah and what it takes to build communities that thrive. Sheikh Beg, Assalamualaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh and welcome to Radio Islam International.
Assalamualaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh. The fact that we disagree on everything and also that our manners of disagreement are atrocious. We seem to have lost the teachings of Rasulullah ﷺ and the Sahaba regarding what he taught them with regard to the manners of disagreement. It is not so much disagreement, but how we do it, which is the biggest cause of problem.
Whether it’s at an individual level, whether it’s at the level of organizations, whether it’s at the level of countries, we seem to all fall into the same place: we are unable to have a civil, logical, respectful disagreement and discuss matters that we don’t agree on and come to some kind of conclusion. Even if the conclusion is simply that we agree to disagree, we don’t seem to be able to do. So what would cause that problem? I mean, we have a lot of people who are knowledgeable; we’ve been taught, we understand, and I mean, we have knowledge at our fingertips today.
Yeah, I think the issue is not knowledge; the issue is egos. We have very inflated egos. Everyone thinks that he is God’s gift to mankind. And we begin from the standpoint that there is no way that I can possibly be wrong. And therefore, the other party is always wrong. And so it’s like saying, you know, “be reasonable,” accept that you’re wrong. That’s absolute nonsense. Because, you know, unless you are able to meet somebody respectfully, one-on-one, face-to-face, with the possibility that you might be wrong. You know, for example, take the classic position of the Salafi Salihin. Of the… So a lot of times, the four Imams’ position was always, with respect to any disagreement, that I believe that I am right with the possibility of being wrong. And I believe that the other person is incorrect in their ruling, with the possibility that perhaps they are correct. So this was the position, which is the position of humbleness, you know, position of… Actually, yeah. Because nobody is receiving Waheef of Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. You know, the only person who could have said that I am right without the possibility of being wrong was Rasulullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam. Because he was receiving Waheef of Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala. So the word of Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala is, there is no scope for that to be wrong. But other than that, no matter who it is, it is, end of the day, it is your opinion, it’s my opinion.
So whether it’s a marital dispute in the home, in the marital home, whether it’s a dispute between parents and children, whether it’s a dispute with friends, the possibility of you being wrong is always there. And if you, if I start from the position to say that, “no, I can’t be wrong,” it’s impossible. So therefore, necessarily the other person has to be wrong. And my job really is to convince you that you are wrong. So I’m not even interested in coming to any conclusion. I’m just, my job is to make sure that you understand that you are wrong. I mean, this is, this cannot be true. And that’s, that’s what’s happening.
Now, many people equate leadership with holding positions of authority, but Islam teaches something much deeper. How should ordinary Muslims see themselves as leaders in their own homes, in their workplaces, and even in communities?
Leadership is really service. Leadership has nothing to do with holding positions. There’s no… And you find this; you find this in many places. In real life, you find the actual leader, the people who are influential, the people who other people listen to. They’re not necessarily people who are, you know, who are great authority or anything like that. They are ordinary people, but something about them. And that something is service. It is the willingness to put yourself out for the sake of others. So that other people can, you know, can benefit. And that is what gives you leadership. And this is what Islam teaches us. Islam teaches us that leadership is all about service. And that’s what, if you see the seerah of Rasulullah, which is the best example that Allah gave us. And Allah said:
> “And We have already sent messengers before you among yourselves.” (Quran 40:78)
This is what we see was his willingness to serve. And there are so many stories in the seerah. I mean, I’m sure you and I, and we have heard all these stories. Of where Muhammad, the most humble people, would go, he would serve them. And the Sahaba learned the same thing from them.
And when he became the Khalifa, he overheard somebody, he overheard a girl in the place where he lived saying that, “Now who will milk our goats for us? Because now our neighbor has become the Khalifa; he’s become the king.” And I woke up to this, and I said, “Why are you saying something like this?” Because first of all, I’m not a king; secondly, now I will serve you even more because now it’s also my official duty. I mean, I used to serve my neighbors and help them because I wanted to do that. But now it’s also my duty because I’m now the Khalifa. So the leadership positions in Islam have always been seen by people who understand the deen as positions of service. And that is what gave the leaders influence. People love them because they serve them.
Now you’ve trained hundreds of thousands of leaders, written extensively on leadership. What are the three qualities every Muslim leader must cultivate to remain effective and sincere?
First and foremost, the quality that any Muslim leader or any leader for that matter, I mean, they should cultivate is an absolute commitment to truth, to be truthful, no matter what the cost. Without, without that you cannot have leadership. I mean, unfortunately today our political leadership is characterized by people who have the exact opposites: their total commitment to lies. But that’s why we have the kind of leadership we have. So the first and foremost thing is to have a total commitment to the truth.
Second thing is the willingness and the ability to continuously learn, which requires humility, which requires humbleness. If I want to learn, that I must be in a position where I am saying to myself that I don’t know everything. I need to learn new things. So this ability to learn is extremely important. The third thing is compassion. The willingness to feel for others. Right? It’s not just a matter of say, “I’m the leader.” Now I have the money. I have the power. I have the authority. So I will do whatever I want. No, it’s compassion. So truth, willingness to learn, and compassion. I think these are the three most critically important things that any leaders should have. And if I can, with your permission, add a fourth one, and that would be holding yourself accountable.
You know, not just doing this, but holding yourself accountable and saying that I am accountable. No matter what happens to me, I am accountable. That’s the reason why if you see in our history of Islam, the real people, and it’s, it’s a kind of dichotomous thing, because the truth is that the really good people, the great scholars, and others, they ran away from leadership. They didn’t take leadership. When Imam Abu Hanifa had literally, the Khalifa had to threaten him with prison before he accepted the position of a judge. Right? So you might say, well, you know, this is sad. This is not good, because if you are capable and you are the best person, then, and if you say, “I will not be a leader,” I will not take a position of authority, then you are really doing injustice to the people. Now that’s a debatable point. And you know, one can talk about that. But the point I want to make is that the reason why these people, they ran away from leadership positions, they kept away from people of power. They kept away. It was almost like an unwritten rule that an alim who was close to the ruler was necessarily somebody who was not trustworthy. It was, because it was almost like a rule to say that if you are a truthful scholar, if you are a real scholar, then you will not be close to people of power, people who have power and people who have authority.
So again, it’s not a hard and fast rule, but I’m saying that all these indicators will show us that the real truthfulness of leaders is not in, you know, throwing their weight about and doing those things, but being truthful and holding themselves accountable before Allah ﷻ. And that, that fear was what kept them in a position where they didn’t even want to be close to people of authority.
Now, young Muslims are navigating a world that’s shaped by social media, identity struggles and the constant destruction of these, you know, the things that we have available to us today. How can communities and leaders inspire the next generation to lead with confidence while still remaining firmly rooted in Islamic values?
See, this is like saying that it is raining and I insist on going out in the rain without a umbrella, without a raincoat. And I was saying somehow I must not get wet, but this is, this is a complete nonsense. There’s no way that you will not get wet. If you are, if it is raining, you either stay at home, don’t go out, or if you have to go out, protect yourself, right? Now, this is what is happening today. Social media is like rain. It’s, it’s everywhere. Uh, it’s in everyone’s pocket and it is highly, highly destructive.
There is now, um, documented medical evidence; you’re all neurological evidence to say that children who, uh, get screens early in their lives and may Allah have mercy on us. We have, uh, we give the smartphone to children, uh, child who is one year old and two years old. Now, children who are literally raised by phones, by, by iPad and by, uh, screens, there is documented evidence, the evidence to show that they’re, that the frontal cortex, uh, is not developing. So they have shrunken brain, which means that they are growing up into people whose thinking ability is severely curtailed. Right? Now, the, the, my point is who is doing it to you? Nobody, right? I’m choosing it to, I’m choosing to do it to myself. So when we say, “what do you see?” That is the effect of social media. There is, there is no effect. We are taking that effect on ourselves. Social media is there. So don’t touch it. I mean, there’s alcohol. We don’t drink it. There are all kinds of things which, which are there in the world. There’s a casino everywhere. We don’t go there. So same way. I mean, you can’t say, “Oh, you see, what can I do after all that there are casinos,” there is a casino, but the casino will do you no harm unless you go there. Yes. So don’t go there. Simple as simple as that.
So the thing with, as far as social media is concerned, number one is to stay far away from it. Uh, do not use it. Don’t use any social media as far as the phone is concerned. It’s a, it’s an instrument for you to communicate with people. No, by all means, have a phone call, call whoever you want to call, talk to them and then no, no harm in that. But that does not mean you have, you need to have Snapchat and Instagram and, and Facebook and this one and that one. Where is the need for all of that? There’s no need for any of that. So if, if we can do that, this is where self control comes in. So again, it’s a dichotomous thing for those who can do this. Believe me, their life will be very easy because they are competing against people who can’t even think as far as they’re concerned. They’re on. But, but for, but if you’re on the other side, you know, if you’re one of those who can’t think then what happens to you? So that is what is happening today. The whole, the whole purpose of social media, including AI, for example, for that matter is why it’s very simple. It is control of the masses.
So there are two, basically, if you look at it, there are two kinds of people: those who are content creators and those who are the technology creators. So people who are programming, people who are creating AI, people who are building AI. That’s one group of people. That’s a miniscule group, a very, very small group of people. The rest of the people are consumers and people like you and I; we are consumers. We are using here. We are not doing anything else. And in the AI world, in the world of social media, if you are a consumer, you are actually the product. You’re not a consumer. You are the product. Somebody is selling you and making money. Thanks to you. They’re making money off you. So you are, you are the product. Now, who chooses that? If I’m doing, if I say, well, I feel sorry for myself. I’m the… Who told you to be a product? So I say, well, you see, I, after all, I cannot create AI. Okay. So you can’t create AI. Don’t create AI, but don’t be a product. Also, it’s, you don’t have to be one of these two. There is a third option, which is you are neither a creator nor a product, but you are an independent human being with a good brain, which is with the capacity to think and you can live a very nice, beautiful, wholesome life. So that also is an option.
There are literally three options. So the, this is where we have to understand the whole purpose of AI and the whole purpose of social media is mass control. And that’s how they do it through social media. They feed you messages, which are patently false, but which is, which are created by behavioral scientists, which are created by people who are highly skilled, who know how to influence other people. And these messages are, you are bombarded with those messages until that lie becomes the truth. You say the same thing 1000 times and it becomes the truth. And this is how elections are manipulated. This is how, uh, for example, Islamophobia or antisemitism or whatever you want to call it. All of this stuff is sold because of this over and over and over repetition. And these messages come in different forms: in cartoons, in little children’s plays, in, in logo, uh, uh, you know, Lego toy, uh, things, all sorts of, I mean, they, they come to you in multiple forms, uh, in, in, in the form of entertainment, in the form of news, in the form of, you know, all kinds of stuff, uh, games. Uh, gaming is one of the major ways in which mind change happens through gaming. If you, if you look at those games and if you analyze the, the characters and what is happening there, these are all, there, there’s nothing accidental about that. And it’s, there’s nothing in that which is pure entertainment, just have a, have fun, have a big, good laugh and go home. They are very, uh, skillfully created, very powerful, uh, mind changing, uh, systems that are made by some very, very highly educated people whose job is that. And who is, who is at the receiving end is your child and my child, who is a poor, innocent creature who does not show his right hand from his left hand, and the other hand, and he has been given this form by his parents who don’t have, uh, the judgment to know what is right and wrong. And that’s what, that’s why, that’s what we are facing.
So this is why it is very important that in this world, uh, we live consciously, we live intelligently, and we make very serious choices to do or not do something that one of the most serious choices I believe people need to make is not give their children screens until they are, they are 18, 19 years old. They must. If they already have those screens, take them away. Your child will freak out for a couple of days. After that, he’ll, he’ll straighten out. Nothing will happen. Tell them, “go out,” go out and play. You don’t have to look at a game on the, on the screen. Go out and play, play the game. Don’t watch the sport.
Now, you’re visiting South Africa at a time when Muslims face growing social, economic, and ideological challenges. If you could leave South African Muslims with one practical piece of advice that could transform our communities over the next decade, what would it be and where should that transformation begin?
I think I, I, as I said before, there’s, there’s, there’s one single point of advice: create organizations of service where you are, you help others and you serve others. Now, my experience, South African Muslims, Alhamdulillah, they’re doing a lot of stuff like that. Many of them are doing it. Uh, there are feeding stations, there are, uh, elderly care stations, there are hospitals, there are, they do a lot of welfare. I was absolutely, delighted. I saw a lot of this stuff. The only, my only, uh, thing with the South African, especially I’m talking about Muslims now, my, my only thing with the South African Muslims is that this work needs to be made public. And that I don’t think they are doing. Uh, some of them are not, are not doing it with the best of intentions, which is for, to have their class and not to show off and so on. But you know, there’s, there’s a, there’s a line to be drawn in that. Inshallah, Allah Ta’ala is the one to forgive. So we are not doing it with the intention of showing off, but it’s very important to, to make the good work that you are doing, make it public, let people know what, what is happening. So that the overall impression about Muslims changes.
So that is the whole thing. The, the, the problem with the impression about Muslims is that it’s built on propaganda. It’s not true. It’s false. It is false. And it is being, uh, it has been created by vested interest, uh, by, because of all the lies that they, that they have been saying, uh, concerning Muslims. And the best way to counter that is not by argument. It’s not by, you know, shouting, shouting at people. It’s just by showing. So if you say that “Muslims are people who do not contribute,” excuse me, hold on a minute, here is our contribution. Please come and see it. Now, when you, when you do that, then automatically minds will change. And of course, obviously there’s always room to do more because there is so much of poverty and so much of oppression and whatnot in the world that it’s never enough. But alhamdulillah, uh, if I look at, um, Muslims living as minorities in different countries in the world, I think the South African Muslims have created a very, very, uh, remarkable and a very positive position for themselves, uh, which I’m actually quite happy to say that I don’t think it exists anywhere else. But even if it does exist in other places, then alhamdulillah, all power to them. But there’s not too many of them, right? So maybe just a couple of other places.
So, but this needs to be public. That’s my point. This needs to be, this needs to be seen. This needs to be appreciated. And so therefore this must be brought to the notice of governments, of, uh, other bodies of other people, uh, you know, uh, people of other, other faiths, all of this needs to be done. So like you do interfaith work, for example, this, this information should become public, uh, so that people then get a balanced view of, uh, what the Muslim contribution is, uh, to all of society.
Absolutely. Well, JazakAllah Khair for your time, for the information and the opportunity. You’ve given us to learn. I really do appreciate you making time for us. I hope you stay here will be one of benefit to the people that you interact with. And may it be of benefit for you too. Inshallah.
JazakAllah Khair. It’s always beneficial to me. I have wonderful friends and I really enjoy myself. JazakAllah Khair. Ameen. Wa alaikum As-Salaam. And that was internationally renowned Islamic scholar, author and leadership consultant, Sheikh Mirza Yawar Begh, sharing his insights on faith driven leadership.
worship, building resilient communities, and preparing the next generation of Muslim leaders. Insha’Allah.